| 1. | (9 posts) | The Sound of Silence |
| 2. | (46 posts) | Interpreting Youth Films as Adults |
We looked at 72 posts by 32 different contributors.
Few threads, but one really massive thread.
James Culbertson wondered, "I watched Kiki in English with English subtitles off the Japanese dvd the other day. Are the sub-titles the direct translation of the original Japanese?
I was sort of stunned to see how much needless dialogue was added to the film. . . Are they afraid of too much silence in a scene?
Warren Savage replied, "I make corporate videos. I can count on 95% of my clients wanting wall-to-wall narration. The other thing 95% of clients want to do is put in something that they thought of, even if it weakens or even destroys the effect the client was intending. . . That's why you see the additional dialogue. Five seconds of 'Mouth Not Seen' (MNS) in a continuity script is a temptation too great to pass up, and someone WILL write extra dialog for Jiji..."
I quoted several different MML Traffic theads. But no no avail.
A theory about "Princess Mononoke" from Mark Verrey, "I believe Neil Gaiman was explaining about this while he was doing the script. More of a problem with not being able to convey the line in so few syllables, rather than there being too much silence. "Hey, the character's back is turned, I'll put it there."
He calls it cheating =)
Gilles disagreed, "But there are many cases where the dialogue is not at all in the original. The beginning of the market scene at the village for example.
It's a US style to fill in with lots of dialogue, just watch French or Japanese cinema and you will notice this.
Yes, it's the return of the fabled Thread of the Week©. Spanning 46 messages and 4 (well, 3.5) threads, it's quite the doozy. David Mankins started the fuss by linking to an article on Japan Today, "This article begins with a bit of second-guessing about how best to introduce Ghibli films to the US (but blames Tokuma and Ghibli for pushing _Mononoke Hime_ into US theaters instead of one of the earlier Ghibli works)"
Proving the Small World theory, Hanno Mueller wrote, "Good lord, they put that on their site? And did not even ask or tell me? Seriously, I'm quite surprised. . . I wrote that as an email as a personal response to the original article's author. I had hoped that it would make him write a follow-up article on the topic, asking the Japenese distributors about their marketing decisions. I would love to hear about their reasons for what they do and how they do it."
Jee Hoon Lee replied, "At the least it's a form of flattery. :)
But it is indeed a good commentary. I think it's important to hear that the lackluster US penetration of Ghibli material in particular and anime in general is also the fault of the Japanese studios/distributors. One just can't blame it *all* on Disney. . . I think it's understandable that Ghibli would want to push, at the time, what they considered their latest and greatest. We all hoped PM would catch on like wildfire.
The main section came from Bruce Franklin's assertion that, "some adults enjoy the films but then it is more for the sense of nostalgia rather than the thematic reasons." Bruce used "Kiki's Delivery Service" as his main example, "it doesn't tackle any issues relevant to us as adults, the plot is simplistic and the characterizations are paper-thin"
Many people rose up to counter Bruce's points, Christina O'Connell wrote, "Kiki is one of my favorite films - in any genre. The making of choices, finding our own home in the world, and the role of friends within that process is important work we do all our lives.
I did not see a Miyazaki film until I was past 40 and my son (who is an anime fan) suggested Totoro as a good film to show my daughter and her friends at her birthday party. I expected to be bored ... the cover art on the US video is really pretty atrocious ... but instead sat mesmerized and awed.
Larry Virden added, "When _I_ (46 yr old male) watched Kiki, I find it relevant in areas such as as trying to find out where I fit in the world around me, trying to make friends with new people, striving to do my best, helping out people who need help even when inconvenient or dangerous, and more."
Andrew Osmond started a running commentary with Bruce after writing, "Speak for yourself. Personally, I find plenty of 'thematic' reasons to enjoy the films; themes like friendship, exploration, the nurturing of one's talents, and innocence (and no, I don't believe innocence is only meaningful for children). This would take a longer discussion, but I still find Totoro more thematically 'relevant' to me than, say, Pulp Fiction."
Bruce replied, "the themes are still there but you might not be the target audience. . . "Stand by me" was heavily geared towards teenage boys. . . if you were an adult who had similar experiences as a child the sense of nostalgia would make the themes seem more relevant to you, and would help you put yourself inside the protagonists head. . . I think your experiencing nostalgia about your younger self ;)"
Another round from Andrew, "No I'm not. Actually I find friendship and exploration more important to me as an adult than I did as a child. Yes, Kiki is about friendship and exploration through a child's eyes. One could equally say High Noon is about friendship and exploration through the eyes of American frontiersmen. . . I don't think one needs some special rationalisation to explain why non-Americans can enjoy High Noon. . . The same goes for adults who like Kiki's Delivery Service.
To put this more plainly; I don't buy the notion that one can only empathise with a fictional child/adolescent through an act of personal
'nostalgia.' Yes, we were all children once, and our memories ('nostalgia') will affect and influence how we watch such films, but that doesn't mean it's the sole or defining reason we see and enjoy the film.
Bruce replied, "I never intended my comments to be applied to the entire film medium. . . The locale may be different to your childhood, as I'm sure Kiki's Delivery Service is, but there must be something in there to remind you of your childhood. This is how these 'coming of age' films are popular."
Michael Wojcik came in at this point with, "Andrew's point is not specific to _Stand by Me_; he's challenging your claim that nostalgia is the only register in which a film about children can engage an adult viewer's attention. . . Themes such as friendship, discovery, and self-understanding are relevant for adults as well. And adults are just as capable of sympathizing with child characters as they are with any others. Certainly there are emotional investments at work, but nothing restricts them to nostalgia, in the strict psychoanalytic sense or the popular one."
At this point the thread continues into a discussion about how/why people can/can not experience/appreciate various themes if they've never experienced them before. Mike Arnold spun the thread into the "multiple quotes from multiple people territory with this post. It's quite dense, but he commented on most of the previous posts with, "let me say that I agree to an extent with Bruce here. I think one major appeal of Miyazaki's style is nostalgia, especially in films like "Totoro", "Kiki", and very definitely in the recent "Sen to Chihiro". That may be nostalgia for specific or vague experiences--a reference to a kind of candy today's Japanese adults ate when they were kids, maybe nostalgia for a fantasy or dream you might have had when you were young. . . Going that far back into youth you may up inventing some of those memories though--even if there is "nostalgia," it might be for an experience that is fiction in itself.
I don't think this means that the films have no appeal other than nostalgia. There are a number of different positions we can take when
watching, and there are many different things to see. Still I do think the nostalgia can overwhelm at times, turning the movie into a story about middle-aged-people-nostalgically-thinking-about-youth
I noted the existance of a Studio Ghilbi tribute album, played by a chamber orchestra. Ryoko Toyama found the next Studio Ghibli film to be released on DVD, "Porco Rosso".
Special Christmas issue next week!