| 1. | (4 posts) | NPR Morning Marketplace Anime Report |
| 2. | (3 posts) | English Translation for "Kiki's Delivery Service" Book? |
| 3. | (13 posts) | Earrings and Meaning |
| 4. | (20 posts) | "Alice in Wonderland" vs. "Sen" |
| 5. | (5 posts) | Mononoke OST Instrument Query |
We looked at 81 posts by 32 different contributors.
The first week 5 of the year, w00p!
Feedback on Susan Napier's apperance on NPR's Morning Marketplace from Michael Kerpan, "The good: Morning Marketplace did its piece on Anime this morning.
The bad: Prof. Napier's contribution constituted only about 15 seconds of the piece. The report itself was pretty unilluminating (not suprising given its brief duration) but did mention Miyazaki and Princess Monoke in passing.
Marc Hairston wrote, "Well, we knew it was going to be short, but at least they used a good quote from Susan. . . As for it being "unilluminating", while it didn't tell *us* anything we didn't already know, most of its audience doesn't know anything about anime other than maybe Pokemon. So for a 3 minute cram introduction, I thought they did a respectable (and positive!!) job."
For those lacking RealPlayer, I encoded an MP3 version.
John Jenkins inquired, "My daughter was delighted to find a copy of _Majo no Takkyuubin_ at the local public library yesterday. . . Unfortunately, her Japanese is so minimal she really can't read it. I just checked nausicaa.net, and it would seem that _Majo no Takkyuubin_ hasn't been translated into English yet. Am I right in so surmising? If so, how difficult is the Japanese in the book?"
Deborah Goldsmith replied, "Apparently the author, KADONO Eiko, has an English translation in hand, and is searching for a publisher in the US. The translation is not publicly available yet.
The Japanese isn't hard, but there are a lot of colloquialisms that will take a while to slog through.
Alan Bishop added, "I'm reading it now, and I'll second this. The dictionary that I use to look up unknown words flags things as commonly used or not, and a surprising number of things are either flagged as not common or just not in any of my dictionaries at all. My Japanese teacher has to guess occasionally what some things mean.
Relating it to the Miyazaki film, it's fairly different at times (like Kiki's flying ability). But, it's also more detailed, like explaining why you hear bells as Kiki is flying off at the start. It's a different, but equally interesting Kiki.
A question that Marc Hairston received in the "Introduction to Humanities" class he's co-teaching, "one of the students pointed out that several times when San turned her head, her earrings rang, and the student wanted to know if that had any symbolic significance. . . So does anyone know if there was some significance to this, or is it just a case of "she's just wearing earrings that ring"?"
For some reason, people really jumped on this thread. Havel Ormaci replied, "there is a well known museum in Japan, that, basically is an earring museum. . . exhibitions of earrings from around the world through all time, beginning with Jomon-period ear plugs. . . its rare for Miyazaki though (in my view) to just insert certain aspects for vanity purposes, that would probably not be his style.
Simply assuming now that there was a connection between Shinto and the earrings, in Kagura rituals dances slow deliberate movements causes noises to be made, such as the ringing of bells attached to swords. Though I have never seen earrings used to that effect, bells, clapping as well as the use of Shime wands would create noises, which, as you assumed (or state) is to attract the god (technically to wake them.) but they have to be noises of a certain kind (shall we say "ring" or "whisper"). . .
Here's the problem. Usually these rituals are deliberate and wearing an earring as you move left and right is hardly deliberate. Ring the bells before war, maybe that makes sense, but to just ring them as you move your head left and right, that isn't right. You call the gods or spirits when you need them, not whenever it just happens, usually. Again, maybe she did use her earrings deliberately for certain effects, maybe the use of this kind of earring has a superstition attached to it and more could be revealed by its shape, form and possibly sound.
Maybe its just attention to detail ;-)
Knut Brockmann wrote, "Maybe the sound and the blinking of the earring are used to show Ashitakas impression, his own picture of San. He is definitly impressed by her earrings. You know that Japanese cinema is based for a good deal on theater forms as Noh or Kabuki. In these forms a single sound may indicate something important. . . Therefore this sound may indicate the moment, the pose of San and how it affects Ashitaka. This is --of course-- just guessing, I cannot be inside one, who is born into this cultural system. But I think it could be be pretty much the answer. But maybe I am just again wrong :)"
Lots of disclaimers from posters, Sean Raduechel continued the trend with, "If ringing is meant to attract the attention of the gods, then the ringing of the earrings may signify the fact that Ashitaka had managed to "catch" San's attention. This is only a random interpretation"
Trock (huh?) added, "imo the earings HAVE a significance, as for the sound it probably does to but I can only remember one scene where the earrings make a sound (first time ashitaka and san see eachother) and at that moment I'ld say the noise was used to get the viewer's attention + the sharp yet melodious sound adds a little plus to san's expression. So imo it's more of a trick than of an event that has a meaning."
The thread spurred off into different subject lines (why?!) with Zurui Chibi post, "Havel's quoting of museum's brochure reminded me this : Miyazaki had written that the model he used to create San (visually speaking) was a clay statuette of Jomon era (I don't know Japanese history enough to say what is this in gregorian calendar), so the earrings were probably "part of the package". I've never seen the "original", but perhaps someone on the List has...
The function of these little disks of metal (the material is the thing that bothers me the much... it's metal according to the sound it produces, but "metal" is fairly blur...) is probably, as it was pointed out, to wake spirits (or kami). We could say it's another proof that San is (prob. 98,8%) a shaman (other characteristic features are her fang-shaped paintings on cheeks and her quite unorthodox first-aid methods). But, in that case, I hardly see the daily use of those things. . . it seems to me that, sometimes, he just puts things in his movies for coolness' sake (consider all the "nuclear hazard" symbols in "On Your Mark", or even the flying machines in Laputa). Of course, in Miyazaki's case, what He considers cool cannot be vain, can it?
Corrections and additions from David Mankins, "That was the model for San's mask, not for San herself.
The ear-rings actually look like they're bone, not metal (however, they ring as though they were metal).
Another thing to beware of: I know they ring in more than one scene in the English dub. Do they ring in the original Japanese?
Havel replied (to Zurui's message), "Miyazaki may have been inspired by a Jomon era looking human, living amongst the forest gods, afterall, in that era of superstition there were many beliefs and no doubt much respect to the forests and supernaturals. The Jomon era began around 13,000 BC and is a time of hunter-gatheres with arts in pottery and may have very well looked a bit like San, primitive, a bit wild. Perhaps he wanted to reinforce the "old vs. new" image which could be easily lost if it wasn't defined more clearly in the appearance of San? As you say, just part of the package?"
Chris Kuan wrote, "If you take a look at the images of San via nausicaa.net, it looks as if they are white (or very pale), oval discs. They might be bone, or clay, or even polished metal (doubtful :-) ).
Now, I recall the "ring" that they make during the movie - and it seems almost supernatural. They only ring in a couple of situations, not all the time. They serve as a musical "sting" without having to put a longer fragment of music or sound over the picture.
Marc jumped back into the thread to answer David's query, "There are two scenes where the earrings ring. (There may be more, but I don't have time to go through the whole movie at the moment.) The first is when San turns her head to look at Ashitaka when he first calls to them from across the river. (This is the first closeup we see of her with all the blood on her face.) The second is when she takes the crystal dagger from that Ashitaka sent to her. And yes, the ringing is there in both the English and Japanese track. I'm starting to think this is less the sound of her earrings and more of an audio "accent" to make you notice this is an important scene, turning point, etc."
Havel gave a detailed analysis, "1st scene. . . it clearly has the sound of bones (or plastic) clanking around, so its highly likely these large oval earrings (which are also oversized) are made of anything but Metal.
Now the very curious part was that, notice when the sharp "ding" takes place, the earrings actual move rather violently, they sort of turn or something. Its very interesting. San does not move violently enough for the earrings to logically react that way, it happened by way of some power...perhaps the Shamanistic theorem takes place here.
Yet on the second scene you suggest, clearly there is no intent, when she picks up the knife, there is a ring again, but the earrings don't move and perhaps here its, as Knut suggested, to emphasize a scene and its importance/significant.
There is another scene where it rings, when San gets hit on the head by a gun shot and her masks falls apart, as she lies unconscious and her head moves, her earrings once more "move" and the ring sound happens again, clearly this is intentional, again. When you fall to the side with the head, there is no reason for her earrings to move like that (they kind of tingle, move up and down), yet they do, and they ring once more. If you see it on DVD you'll know what I mean, I suppose.
Its intriguiging. The "intentional" scenes do appear to have some significance that are of a ritualistic nature, as the sound and the way the earrings "move" seem to indicate this. Her earrings are likely not metal, so the "ring" that comes off is mystical it would appear. You'll notice how the earrings move to the sound in a very deliberate way, so you can draw comparisons to Kagura. Then however there was this scene with the knife, where there was nothing, except the ringing noise happened when she "turned" the knife, accenting perhaps also a reflection to a crystal matter, but it may well be that the scenes don't all relate.
Chris ended the thread with, "remember the section of the production report where Miyazaki agonised over a scene in which Ashitaka tumbles?
He only realised why the scene did not look right when he actually acted out how a real body moves under its own weight, or something like that. . . anime's "unrealistic" moments (e.g. the bright "ringing" sound when a reflection glints off polished metal, probably recalling the sound a sword makes when quickly drawn from its scabbard, by association with the accompanying glint off the sword itself - cf. the literary device known as synecdoche) seem to have sidetracked me, because I've forgotten what I was going to say before that parenthetical ramble ^_^;
Oh yes - maybe the symbolic ring is for the viewer only, not for the movie characters.
In conclusion, the group answer is: We Have No Idea.
Since you slogged through the previous thread, here's a thread that even longer! Nick Leifker sat in on Marc Hairston's anime lecture at the University of Texas - Dallas, his entire notesheet is too large to quote, but it's a great read. The bulk of the thread came from a single line in Nick's report, "Spirited Away. Think "Alice in Wonderland"."
Steve Underwood didn't think so, "Was that said in earnest, or as a throw away line? I can't believe anyone would seriously compare them. Alice is like Harry Potter - kind of fun, but in the end its just inconsequential fluff. There is no mistaking at any point in Sen that it is trying to make several points. . . The reason I compared Alice to Harry Potter is that we saw Sen the week before we saw Harry Potter. As we came out from Sen a number of parents were asking their children what the movie was trying to say. As they came out from Harry Potter they just asked if it was fun or if it was scary. I think that is quite a profound difference."
Several people posted replies, but Marc's comments are the best of the bunch, "I have seen the comparison to "Alice" in several places, so I was using that as a reference point for the class (who remember have seen little anime and certainly know nothing of "Spirited Away"). Both are about a young girl who leaves the real world and finds herself in a fantasy world full of strange creatures. That was as far as I was wanted them to take it.
As others have pointed out you may be confusing the Disney movie of Alice with the actual book. I was refering to the books ("Wonderland"
and "Through the Looking-Glass") and that is a perfectly serious comparison. . . Alice is considered one of the masterpieces of 19th century English literature (not *children's* literature, just literature, period). Miiyazaki is obviously a fan of Alice. Catbus, as many folks have noticed, owes a lot to the original Tenniel illustrations of the Cheshire Cat in "Wonderland".
Steve posted a huge reply, but the thread was pretty much out of steam at this point.
A simple question from Sean Raduechel that left many scratching their heads, "What is the instrument played at the opening of the journey to the west?"
Havel Ormaci replied, "I'm not entirely sure because as far as I recall it was an orchestra of different instruments. The Strings appeared to be of western classical background, the wind instruments could however have been Shakuhachi (Bamboo flutes). I've seen a performance by Kitaro once giving out a similar sound so that could be one of them, very beautiful. The effect is not unlike a panpipe, but of course its different."
Sean added, "The only instrument I am curious about is the one played just after he says to his sister "I could never forget you" and then rides off. It has a sort of twang to its sound almost like a celtic flute, although it doesn't sound as whimsical as a flute. My best description is a cross between a celtic flute and an oboe."
Trock (more specifically, his girlfried) wrote, "There could be several base instruments such as the irish whistle or polynesian whistle that could be added as sounds on the sequencer and re-arranged. For example, there could be a lot of modulation added for extra vibrato, and tweaking of the resonance and cut off filters. Or even a combination of two instruments on different channels"
More on this topic next week.
Plug alert from Andrew Osmond. Another plug from Emru Townsend, but you can actually read his article. Mark Yates described his Mononoke music video. A downloadable version is sure to appear sometime soon. . . Hanno Mueller posted information on the Berlin International Film Festival and a German (translated for the German-impaired) review of "Sen". Vincent Kieffer noted that the "Porco Rosso" DVD is being delayed to added the French audio track.
That's all, see you next week.